Ouch, WO got cancelled

I only read the first 2 and then the last 2 ending of the first set.

I never got a chance to read the in between ones. I just know the beginning of the storyline and the events on Takis.

I do have the Gurps Wildcards books so I know the characters and the events.

<hr>
Tech Know - 23.1 Electrical Blaster / Devices
<br>
R Tech 17.4 Ice/Empathy Controller

Read the first couple of books. Got disinterested after awhile.

I do *know* most of those authors, though.

-------
Hellstrom (25 Magic/Controller/Fire/Storm) -AoJ
Mr E (10 Natural/Defender/Radiation/Energy) -AoJ I
Moo Chi (8 Mutation/Scrapper/Martial/Reflex) - ICP
Guerrila Girl (10 Blaster/Gun/Devices) - leader and sole member, Guardian of Justice

Ah, but did you read all 14 Wild Cards book. The e-novels? The new book?
--
Circeus, Friendly/Neighborhood/Site/Admin
Starmaster, Mutant/Blaster/Energy/Fire
Mighty Quinn, Magic/Tanker/Invuln/Energy
Cosmic Balance, Natural/Controller/Gravity/ForceField
Maddest Cow, Science/Scrapper/MA/Reflexes

Thanks but I'm sure I can google it. =) (said in a nice tone).
<p>
I'm reading a 3rd book from the Ender's Game series right now.

<hr>
Tech Know - 23.1 Electrical Blaster / Devices
<br>
R Tech 17.4 Ice/Empathy Controller

I do believe that there are novels written within the Deadlands world. Couldn't tell you what any of them are though. If you're interested, let me know and I will find you an answer.

Frosty
_____________________________________________________________________
Herodotus Frost-- Magic/Blaster; Electric/Cold
Creon-- Natural/Scrapper; Darkness/Super Reflexes
Green Succubus--Magic/Defender; Storm/Radiation

That sound really interesting. Is there a series of novels based on Deadlands?
<p>
Where you mentioned the cards, I flashed back to the Wild Cards series.
<p>
Very Quick Explanation: In 1946 a alien virus landed on Earth. Out of 100 people: 90 will die aka get The Black Queen, 9 will get a combination of a physical deformity aka Draw a Joker with a possiblity of a super power. eg. You look like a rat but can infect people with disease (Usually you just get the deformity), 1 out of 100 will draw an ACE. You look normal but receive superpowers.
<p>
There's combinations. Ace's who can fly due to wings could be considered a Joker/Ace even if the wings are considered beautiful.

<hr>
Tech Know - 23.1 Electrical Blaster / Devices
<br>
R Tech 17.4 Ice/Empathy Controller

Like lots of other games systems (White WOlf comes to mind) GURPS put out a game book to convert that system to their own, but it isn't really the same.

For those not familar with Deadlands, the basic premise is Cowboys and Ghosts. The world is set in what should be the Reconstruction period of the US just following the Civil War. The only problem is that the war continues into the 1870's, half of California has been ravaged by Earthquake, and the dead are everywhere. To make matters worse, the Native Americans have become organized and taken advantage of the prolonged Civil War to create sovereign nations and harass the two countries at war. And as a result of the California earthquake, a new mineral called Ghost Rock has ushered in a new mad eara of scientists and incredible machines. Ghost Rock is a marvelous material that acts like a mix of coal and nuclear energy that has been supernaturally cursed. Burns like the devil, but drives you insane. Into this mix add a resurgent of creatures of legend (Sasquatch, Wendigo, Chupacabra, and Jackelope) and other new nasties roaming the countrysides, and your characters have adventures coming at them from every direction.

Like Vervex said, it is a fantastic game that is very unique. The mechanics rely on the standard RP dice, but also include the use of a deck of playing cards (52 cards plus a Red Joker and a Black Joker; and trust me, you don't want to ever get a Black Joker). The sad thing is that the game is no longer in production, although you can still find some books on eBay, at some game/hobby stores, as well as their old publishers website (pinnacle.com).

Rumor has it that the games creator is planning on reintroducing the game with a different publisher or starting his own publishing company. That being said, if you get a chance to play it, do it. It's a great game.

Frosty
_____________________________________________________________________
Herodotus Frost-- Magic/Blaster; Electric/Cold
Creon-- Natural/Scrapper; Darkness/Super Reflexes
Green Succubus--Magic/Defender; Storm/Radiation

Is that the GURPS game where it's basically Horror mixed with the Wild West?

I played a GURPS game once where my character was given very minor sort of Pyrokinetics. However each level took 5 points from my character so all I way able to do was raise the temperature by 150 and still have a somewhat rounded character.

The GM took great delight in explaining that I wouldn't be able to set things on fire since paper doesn't catch fire until 451.

However... a human will fall from heat exhaustion at 230 degrees. 80 degrees room temperature plus 150. Certain chemicals, electronics and such would begin to stop either explode or stop working at 230 degrees. We never had to worry about the elements in cold weather.

=)

<hr>
Tech Know - 23.1 Electrical Blaster / Devices
<br>
R Tech 17.4 Ice/Empathy Controller

VerveX:
Also, the lead designer has a huge pen & paper RPG background (including 'Deadlands', the most innovative system I've seen in P&P).

--Love Deadlands. It has replaced D&D as my second fav pen and paper game (with Shadowrun being my fav) because of:
a. the creative nature of character creation
b. the mythology and milieu setting of Deadlands

I was tempted to buy Red Dead Revolver because of the apparent game environment depicted in the commercials until my brother told me he had beat the game faster than the Resident Evil Games.

--Did someone say the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man is rampaging in Atlas Park? OMW and I'm bringing the Fire to roast 'im!

but my understanding is that you leveled up very quickly in that game? That makes it different from CoH. Didn't D2 also have PvP? If so, that gave the players more to do after they capped their player's level. CoH is just lacking something to do at the end other than fight Hamidon. So basically what we are playing for is level 50 at this point. Once we reach it there's not much to do except work on alts.

Now I'm reading the link that Maq posted in General Discussions about what is coming to the game and I'm afraid to level past 40. They are apparently adding new powers and I don't want to level to 41 to find out that I could have picked a better power afterwards. They say respec is coming but they don't say it's coming before the new powers and they don't say how it's going to work. So now I'm not sure what to do once I hit 40. I suppose I could keep playing and just not level up until they introduce the new powers heh.

_________________________________________________
Brugdor Invuln/Axe Tanker - 34
Bouldershoulder Earth/Empathy Controller - 12
Dragon King Fire/Fire Tanker -12
Yerfired Fire/Devices Blaster - 14

I understand the outlook that CoH won't hold the interests of
players long enough. But...
I look at CoH as having less of a MMORPG feel, and more of the
feel that Diablo II had.
You're doing missions, expanding the storyline, gaining abilities,
and generally powering up your character as you progress. In D2,
I played through the game, lord knows, how many times, but I kept
doing it because the core of the game was fun. It was a good time
to just roll out and tear through a hundred enemies. I get that
same feeling here. The missions only deviate so much, but they're
still fun. I think this game has more longevity than people give it
credit for.

I'm in no way saying anyone's feelings are invalid. Quite the contrary. I just feel that there is a certain intangible "fun" factor
to this game.

Also, the lead designer has a huge pen & paper RPG background (including 'Deadlands', the most innovative system I've seen in P&P).
I think he has the right idea about this game. I think in six months, there is going to be so much new crap in this game, that people are going to stick around. When you throw in costume changes, tailors, extra mission types, more interactive missions, unique enh's from trials, new villain groups, arena PvP, and new city zones, there will be a lot to do and see.

As far as EQ2 or WOW making a huge impact on the MMO world.
Eh...
Let's look at the genres for MMORPG's:
Fantasy
Sci-Fi
Superheores

Um... that's about it right now.
Fantasy and Sci-Fi have multiple entries out now, with more to come.
Superheroes, have one, CoH. As long as the CoH dev's keep with their
plan, this game will be fine.
WOW might attract a lot of attention, but it will have a lot to live up to. The same with EQ2. I think there is a better chance of them increasing the level of MMORPG "ho-hum" than revolutionizing the genre. I hope I'm wrong...

-----------------------------------
Apollyon - Scrapper Katana/Invuln/Leap
Phayde - Defender Empathy/Mental/Teleport
Salamando - Tanker Stone/Mace/Flight
Hadoth - Controller Illusion/Kinetics/Speed

For me the wait has been for a Superhero MMOG. I played Freedom Force a bunch, and even moded it quite a bit to try out things (there's a cool JL vs Avengers mod out there). And I even got to once *play* an advance of the dead and buried Champions game. This is something I've been waiting for someone to get the superhero feel done and right in. And I feel that despite its shortcomings, CoH has the right feel for a Superhero game. It is very much a street level superhero feel with Golden Era twinges thrown in here and there for seasoning.

Sure I like FRP as much as the next person, but its all very rote to me. Even AC didn't diverge that much as most of the monsters in it can be found to be amalgams of a few things found traipsing around the D&D Monster Guides.

I've tested a lot of games at this point. From very early points on forward (earlier than many others get to see them typically). But after spending countless hours testing games CoH is only the 2nd game I've paid for in the MM genre.
--
Circeus, Friendly/Neighborhood/Site/Admin
Starmaster, Mutant/Blaster/Energy/Fire
Mighty Quinn, Magic/Tanker/Invuln/Energy
Cosmic Balance, Natural/Controller/Gravity/ForceField
Maddest Cow, Science/Scrapper/MA/Reflexes

*stomps off muttering about silly girls*

Just to make sure I'm clear on something, I'm not trying to make anyone think CoH is bad. It's been fun so far and I'm going to continue playing for a while.

I was really just sort of carrying over a conversation my fellow dwarves and I have been having on our own boards. It's been interesting to get everyone's opinion on the current state of MMO gaming.

_________________________________________________
Brugdor Invuln/Axe Tanker - 33
Bouldershoulder Earth/Empathy Controller - 12
Dragon King Fire/Fire Tanker -12
Yerfired Fire/Devices Blaster - 14

Brugdor said:
I don't consider CoH a long term game nor do some others I've talked to (don't worry, they weren't AoJers). I think that CoH got a lot of signups because A)They had a unique setting for an MMO and B)There is nothing else new as far as MMOs go. When they come out with CoV and some more updates then possibly it will be something that will make people stick around long term. For the moment though it remains a grind at every point of progression in the game.
<p>
There's a lot of truth to that. Yes it's a level grind. You gain experience to get the next power, power slot or ability to get into a harzard zone. You recieve no loot or special item/power.
<p>
However I'm ok with that. I always had a special place in my heart for superheros. I remember playing WonderTwins (yes really) with my cousin Jimmy in Arkansas. My Mom has a picture of me with a towel and a clothes pin in Mexico pretending to be Supergirl. I eeeeeven had Underroos!
<p>
The point being it's the only game (besides Freedom Force) where you can pretend/play as a superhero. I get to see some of my creations come to life. Tech Know isn't just a thought, she's come to life in Paragon City.
<p>
Another great thing is... there's no elves, halflings, (Dwarves are ok), fantasy, magic spells, etc. It's not more of the same. I like the fantasy element (I played AC) but I like to try something else. Something different. COH has that.
<p>
However if I do end up working at home in LA like HI, I'll probably sign up for WOW IF I sign up for another game at all. Blizzard makes great games and I'll probably see some AC'ers and COH'ers there. It'll probably be such a great game that it'll be a shame to not play it.
<p>
Brugdor said:
WoW looks like it will be a good game if some things are worked out. It also will be more complete than CoH when it is released.

<p>
Could be. Right now it's the concept that's really holding me to COH. It's the only place to be a superhero. However even I could eventually leave if it becomes boring. I don't see that happening soon.
<p>
Brugdor said:
I think CoH will retain enough people to keep things moving but in 3-4 months I expect it to have maybe half the subscribers that it do

<p>
Definately possible. Right now we've got a lot of people that are interested in the concept. However read the boards and there's a lot of uphappy people. A few people I know already left. Too many changes at once, no loot, repetition. But that's on them. If you don't like it then it may not be for you. (said in a nice tone).
<p>
I find myself longing for some unpopular concepts. At first I liked not having loot. Now I'd love to do a quest to get a Rocket Pack or something 'special' in the game.
<hr>
Tech Know - 24.4 Electrical Blaster / Devices
<br>
R Tech 17.4 Ice/Empathy Controller

AC was my first MMO as well and I don't think I could make myself play a SOE game. CoH has it's good points but as I said before, there is just too much that it doesn't have to flesh out the game atm. Hopefully that stuff will be added eventually but as it stands CoH isn't a complete game for anyone that tires of an endless exp grind. Ironically, I've been told by my guild leader that CoH is the closest MMO to EQ in game play. He would know better than I would since he played EQ from early beta till a year or two after release. I made sure everyone that I told about CoH knew that it was a grind up front because I didn't want them coming back to me and saying that I didn't tell them.

Anyway, I'm hoping a game eventually comes out that encompasses all the best qualities from current MMOs. Combat from FFXI and CoH, an economy like FFXI, trade skills of FFXI, the grouping friendliness of CoH, the PvP of SB and the content of a current MMO that has seen many updates/expansions like EQ or AC.

_________________________________________________
Brugdor Invuln/Axe Tanker - 33
Bouldershoulder Earth/Empathy Controller - 12
Dragon King Fire/Fire Tanker -12
Yerfired Fire/Devices Blaster - 14

I will never try an SOE product again after the steaming pile called SWG that they released, so I don't think EQ2 is an option for me either. And of course, being from AC, EQ in general is "teh suq"

Maybe I've just had bad luck in my guild choices in every MMOG I've played to date.

AC1 - my first guild meeting in my brand new guild a week into the game was a dismantling because half the guild questioned the leadership. Followed the half I liked to WE and stayed with them until a few officers left for a diff guild. I followed them there, and about a year later, the guild ended as the monarch was hacked and deleted. That about did it for AC for me. I left to start beta testing/playing AC2

AC2 - Original guild all got to 50 while I was still level grinding my way. They got bored of the borked PK and lack of content and all left to play either DAOC, SWG, or FFO. I stuck around for a little longer, continuing to play with current AoJ'ers Geero and Embrosia. Left after I hit 50 and had nothing to do but get ganked in Palisades.

DAOC - followed my original guild members from AC2 to DAOC, where they had a big head start on me. The guild ended up dissolving from internal issues. I joined another guild of a great bunch of people, but they had been playing DAOC for 2+ years already. A bunch quit, a bunch joined a diff guild, and that group dissolved.

Back to AC2 for the hero patch. Kept me interested for 3 or 4 months.. Quit from lack of fun

Back to AC1 to try to recapture that old spark. Found some people from my first WE guild and played for a couple months to catch up on 2 years of questing I missed. Lost interest since I only knew 2 people playing and they didn't play much.

ENTER COH Hooked up with Embrosia and Geero and my RL buddy Bogart (who I played AC with for years before he quit), and here I am at AoJ heh.. It looks like this group is tight-knit and not going anywhere, which is great for a change! I take a while to warm up to folks in a guild, so I don't say too much when grouped or in SG chat, but don't hold it against me. I think I'm kinda shell shocked from my past guild experiences heh.

So you see, my MMOG history is quite checkered. The really demoralizing thing was the great group I was in that the monarch got hacked and everything crumbled. My good friends I made all made there way to a handful of other games, and I haven't heard from a few good people ever since.

I just want a home!! And I will say that playing CoH is the most fun I've had since BG3 with my sorcerer in DAoC, and I'm not planning on leaving this game any time soon. But I will have this game and a WoW account active concurrently when the time comes.

To be honest, I am not looking forward to any other games at the moment. I am incredibly happy with CoH and I am just having a blast playing and exploring the storylines of the game. For me, I have been looking forward to this game since it was announced and it's been over 3 years that I have patiently waited for this to come out. I have faith that the game will be improved and expanded continually to keep my interest for quite awhile.

Like you Tempest, I am old school AC, and really miss the overall feeling of awe and wonder I had the first time I logged onto Dereth. I was able to get into a great community that has survived despite the changes in MMORG's in general and I have had the opportunity to meet some of my online friends in person. For me, AC was a great experience that I don't think can ever be duplicated or repeated. I look at it as the same as when I first got into Baseball, which I would play everyday for 5-6 hours non-stop for the pure joy of playing it. I couldn't do that again today if I had the time. I think that is the same thing with MMORG's. I still love them, but nothing will ever compare with the excitement that came along with AC and wondering about it at all possible hours of the day.

As far as EQ2 and WoW are concerned, I really have no idea how they will effect things. Being a hardcore AC fan, I have always viewed EQ as the enemy. I couldn't in good conscious ever go over to the dark side. As for WoW, I am still soo upset about how terrible I felt Warcraft III was that I haven't even considered looking into it.

One of the things I noticed after playing AC for over 4 years, is that after the game became older, the largest majority of the greifers and immature people seemed to have left to other games. For that reason alone it is appealing to me to stick with a game for a long time.

Like I said though, I have high hopes for CoH continuing as a fun and exciting game for me (although it still isn't what AC1 was). It plays sooo much better than any game I have tried, other than AC, from it's initial opening. I look at games like AC2, Eve Online, or SWG, and how horrible those games were/are. Many of the games out there should still be in beta! Its games like that which are ruining this genre and giving it a bad name. We need more games like AC, EQ, and CoH, that come out smooth when they go live and very playable, not total clusterjobs that are a bundle of promises and disappointment that could seem to care less about making a good game as opposed to something that will make them money.

Frosty
_____________________________________________________________________
Herodotus Frost-- Magic/Blaster; Electric/Cold
Creon-- Natural/Scrapper; Darkness/Super Reflexes
Green Succubus--Magic/Defender; Storm/Radiation

I read this post on the WoW general boards at the Vault, and it pretty much sums up my feelings and the feelings of a lot of the MMOG community apparently:

Hooked on that feeling...

A lot of people, me included, are spoiled by their original experience with the MMORPG genre. My first ever MMOG was AC1, and I have yet to come across a game that has elicited that feeling of awe and amazement I had when I first came out of portal space in Shoushi SE. I have played many MMO games, and had a lot of fun playing them (CoH, AC2, DAOC specifically), but nothing feels like it can keep me hooked for 3+ years like AC1 did, bad graphics and all.

A lot of the people on that post above have played their first MMOG for multiple years, and are now searching for a new game to get those same juices flowing, to no avail. Many go back to their original poison, which I did as well before buying CoH, but it doesnt have that same magic as it once did. I think part of the reason is that the flux of MMOG's that have come about in recent history has ripped apart the original communities we had in the "first generation" of MMORPG's (AC, UO, & EQ) and scattered our old friends to the four corners of the gaming universe, as not everyone has the same tastes when trying to find a new game. And with the market about to be saturated in the coming year or two, it will be way worse.

On positive note, I like the community I've found here in AoJ And a lot of you are ex-AC1 players to boot so I'm sure you know what I mean in my ramblings above. I do like CoH, and I'm anxious to see what CoV will bring, but honestly, I'm more into swords and magic than superpowers. I'm really looking forward to WoW as my next AC replacement, and I truly hope its the one, because I'm tried of blowing cash on MMOG hopping. Dark and Light also looks promising, as does Guild Wars, but WoW is really the key. I think WoW and EQ2 will really make or break the MMO genre for a lot of people who are also tired of game-hopping.

IS anyone else crossing their fingers that WoW or EQ2 will be "the one" to replace that "feeling"?

That question has been on my mind as well. The MMO genre is moving towards a existance where two possibilities exist IMO. Either only a few games will be hits and they will retain enough players to keep improving or many good games will flood the market and retain only enough players to stay afloat. Looking at the last few months I'm more prone to believe that the former will be the case.

I don't consider CoH a long term game nor do some others I've talked to (don't worry, they weren't AoJers). I think that CoH got a lot of signups because A)They had a unique setting for an MMO and B)There is nothing else new as far as MMOs go. When they come out with CoV and some more updates then possibly it will be something that will make people stick around long term. For the moment though it remains a grind at every point of progression in the game.

FFXI was a much more complete game but their teaming limitations kept me from sticking around.

WoW looks like it will be a good game if some things are worked out. It also will be more complete than CoH when it is released.

I think CoH will retain enough people to keep things moving but in 3-4 months I expect it to have maybe half the subscribers that it does atm. Of the 6 members of my dwarven guild that got the game, I'm the only one left.

_________________________________________________
Brugdor Invuln/Axe Tanker - 33
Bouldershoulder Earth/Empathy Controller - 12
Dragon King Fire/Fire Tanker -12
Yerfired Fire/Devices Blaster - 14

Is there really a market for that many MMOG's? I do feel that CoH will force future games to be better or be doomed to failure.

Has he found anything else yet?

Oh, and I forgot to mention Mythica as another MMO casualty.
_________________________________________________
Brugdor Invuln/Axe Tanker - 33
Bouldershoulder Earth/Empathy Controller - 12
Dragon King Fire/Fire Tanker -12
Yerfired Fire/Devices Blaster - 14

I know that all of the customer suport staff was pretty much laid off of Horizons. Including Optim Shi from Warcry.
--
Circeus, Friendly/Neighborhood/Site/Admin
Starmaster, Mutant/Blaster/Energy/Fire
Mighty Quinn, Magic/Tanker/Invuln/Energy
Cosmic Balance, Natural/Controller/Gravity/ForceField
Maddest Cow, Science/Scrapper/MA/Reflexes

I just read that Artifact Entertainment (Horizons Publishers) laid off 70% of their staff on the 16th because they were losing money. I wonder what effect these failures are going to have on the games we are offered in the next few years. Shadowbane is all but dead, Horizons too apparently, and WO cancelled. Planetside continues to falter too as far as I know.
_________________________________________________
Brugdor Invuln/Axe Tanker - 33
Bouldershoulder Earth/Empathy Controller - 12
Dragon King Fire/Fire Tanker -12
Yerfired Fire/Devices Blaster - 14